Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5

Disclosure: I am a supporter of Hillary Clinton for president

With the row about race hopefully ironed out and out of the way, as per good-will gestures from Clinton and Obama, the campaigns are headed into the deciding stage of the race, in my opinion.

Here are some of the bits and snippets of where we are and other items some may have missed:

1. Latest campaign ad in NV:  Title "About people"

It is short (most likely produced for TV, which can get pretty expensive) but well done.  Hillary highlights 35 yrs. of experience, a theme that works for her.  Also very evident is populism and the idea that Hillary will fight for the little guy/gal.  

2. Clinton's recession response plan

In a very important development, Hillary Clinton has released her recession stimulus plan, to blunt the effects of the recession we are either already in or just about to enter.  

I had blogged about the plan in more detail earlier, here:

http://mydd.com/story/2008/1/11/194436/3 52

This article in the NY Times written by Paul Krugman compares Hillary's, Edwards' and Obama's responses to the looming recession:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/opinio n/14krugman.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&am p;oref=slogin&oref=slogin

A very telling excerpt:

Last week Hillary Clinton offered a broadly similar but somewhat larger proposal. (ed. note: compared to Edwards' plan.)   It also includes aid to families having trouble paying heating bills, which seems like a clever way to put cash in the hands of people likely to spend it.  The Edwards and Clinton proposals both contain provisions for bigger stimulus if the economy worsens.

And you have to say that Mrs. Clinton seems comfortable with and knowledgeable about economic policy. I'm sure the Hillary-haters will find some reason that's a bad thing, but there's something to be said for presidents who know what they're talking about.

Clinton's response is predictably populist and progressive.  The size and scope of the package puts a lot of money into the pockets of the hardest hit to churn the economy.

Krugman also made some unflattering comments about Obama's recession response.  However, that has been discussed in length on this blog earlier today and does not need to be rehashed.

3. Hillary Clinton reiterated that she would start pulling out troops within 60 days of inauguration.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Russert_dr aws_staunch_defense_of_Clintons_0113.htm l


Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton defended her record on the Iraq war to Tim Russert on NBC's "Meet The Press" this Sunday and insisted that she will begin to pull out troops within 60 days of taking office.

"From my perspective, part of the reason that the Iraqis are doing anything is because time is running out," she said. "They see this election happening, and they know that they dont have much time, that the blank check George Bush gave them is about to be torn up."

Video of the interview with "gotcha" Russert is contained in the link to the raw story article.   One to two brigades per month are to be pulled starting January 2009.

4. Commentary:  History vindicates Clinton

Without much comment, since the "racial crap" is hopefully behind us now, a commentary that is setting the historical record straight on what apparently got this flap started in the first place (if it wasn't the earlier excuse making that NH voters showed latent racism in a Dinkins- Wilder-effect way.)  

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/1 4/opinion/main3710235.shtml

More after the break...

Where is this headed?

My sense where the race is now headed is that Florida will be the deciding contest for momentum going into Feb. 5.  Even though there are nominally no delegates handed out, all candidates have stated that they would seat the Florida delegation, which means in the end the votes cast will count.  Florida is by far the biggest and most delegate-rich state of the early state lineup, and it is a pivotal state for us Democrats.  Whoever wins Florida will go into Feb. 5 with a head of steam and major momentum.   To that end a few freshly released Florida polls tell the tale of a tremendous Clinton lead, all released today:

Quinnipiac poll:  Clinton 52%, Obama 31%, Edwards 9%

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypo litics/2008/01/q-poll-in-florida-4way-go p-hor.html

Survey USA poll:  Clinton 56%, Obama 23%, Edwards 14%

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics /2008/01/fl_poll_gop_race_tightens_dem.h tml  

Rasmussen: Clinton 48%, Obama 24%, Edwards 14%

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_conte nt/politics/election_20082/2008_presiden tial_election/florida/election_2008_flor ida_democratic_primary

Of course, these polls are subject to change, even though there are only 14 days left before Floridians get to vote.  Much depends on NV and SC upcoming.

The reasons why I strongly believe that Florida, even though it has nominally no delegates to hand out, will be the pivotal contest heading into Feb. 5 and the 22-state extravaganza, are:

A. I think Clinton and Obama will split the next 2 contests, thereby freezing national polls (which roughly make up the average of the 22 Feb. 5 states and are at 10% and growing margin right now.)  Winning Florida, the state with by far the largest population of any of the early contests, would signal that that winner holds a strong national edge (and with that the Feb. 5 edge.)   So, naturally I believe Clinton has a strong advantage, as I think she is a strong favorite to win Florida.  

B. Now, what happens if Obama wins both NV and SC?  Then Florida, again, becomes pivotal.  The bounce Obama would get out of winning these next two contests would surely be strong, and a major test of the bounce's wings and Obama's depth of popularity would be the FL primary.   Were Obama to also win FL, he would be the candidate moving into Feb. 5 with major advantage, having proven himself in a state with major demographics also prominently present in the majority of Feb. 5 states.   Should Clinton win Florida after Obama comes into the contest with NV and SC wins under his belt, it would show that Clinton most likely holds the cards in the big states with the most delegates (FL, then CA, NY, etc.)  

Chelsey campaigns solo for Hillary in CA

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg i?f=/c/a/2008/01/14/MNDDUEOT1.DTL

Until now, Chelsea Clinton has largely limited her appearances in her mother's campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination to posing for photos and shaking hands alongside her mother and her grandmother, Dorothy Rodham, 87, in early primary states.

But on Sunday, she hit the Bay Area as the star of a surprise campaign swing, attending church services at San Francisco's Glide Memorial Church before visiting her mother's Howard Street campaign headquarters, where she was surrounded by crowds of eager volunteers making calls on the senator's behalf.

She also stopped at the House of Nanking for Chinese food and two college locations - Hastings College of the Law and her alma mater, Stanford University - where she met with students and took questions regarding the Clinton campaign.

The Bay Area stop was part of a busy weekend of state stumping for the younger Clinton. On Friday, she went to a UC San Diego dorm to ask college students to vote for her mother. On Saturday, the usually blase crowd at the Santa Monica Farmers' Market - more than used to seeing celebrities - lined up to take pictures with her as she moved though the area.

She had lunch with gay and lesbian undecided voters and later sat with UCLA Democratic student activists and visited two sororities, handling questions on issues ranging from her mother's health care policies and the war in Iraq to the "double standard" for women running for office and how she handles criticism.

"It's a little chaotic. ... I'm new at this," the flustered Clinton daughter said after she was surrounded by well-wishers and amateur photographers with cell phones at Glide Memorial's fellowship hall after the Sunday service.
....
Asked by one UCLA student whether she was excited at the possibility of getting back to the White House, she also exhibited some wry humor.

"I love my parents, and I want my mother to be president," she said. "But I'm 27 years old. ... I wouldn't want to live with my parents again."

At the San Francisco headquarters, Clinton thanked dozens of volunteers for their work, reminding them that "we need to win California."

Some undecided voters, watching Clinton delivering hugs and signing autographs with such aplomb, said they were moved to seriously consider voting for the senator from New York.

"I'm Hillary's age, and she's willing to stand up and be powerful," said Ruth Vogt, 60, of Oakland, nearly in tears as she met Clinton at the side of her 20-year-daughter, Felicity Grisham, at Glide Memorial. She said she was undecided about her vote in the Democratic primary, but in recent weeks, she has been thinking that the former first lady's resilience, and that of her daughter, is worth considering.

The Clintons' daughter, she said, is a testament to her parents because she is "intelligent and handles herself well."

But the younger Clinton left no doubt about whom she was working for on the political front.

"When are you going to run for president?" one enthusiastic admirer asked at the San Francisco headquarters.

"No, no, no," Clinton said, shaking her head. "I'll leave that to them."

I think Chelsea Clinton is a very impressive young lady.  Of course, with two parents of that caliber, no wonder.  It seems as if she has inherited her mother's somewhat sly sense of humor.    :-)



Display:


Experience? (none / 0)

I guess I don't understand how Hillary can tote 35 years of experience and Obama can't tote his experience as a State Senator, a community activist, a Constitutional law professor, and a U.S. Senator... To me, its more like a "push" with maybe Hillary have a few years senior on Obama in the Senate and Obama balancing it out with his knowledge of the Constitution.

I mean, don't get me wrong here.  I think Hillary has a great deal of experience as a politician. She has shown her amazing ability to run a presidential campaign and get herself right back into this race.  Bringing back great arsenals of political gaming like Fear (The whole "its no coincidence that Al-Quaida struck right when Gordon Brown came into his role at P.M) and baiting the topic of race and gender, even though Obama did not respond on the issue of race.  She was right there with Bill when he ran for all his various positions and did a great job speaking for him (I witnessed it first hand in 1992 and 1996). She led the fight for universal health care, albeit unsuccessfully under the Clinton Administration and played a daily role in the political wars that is Washington.  But what experience does a First lady provide that really distinguishes her on the issue of "experience" from Obama, other than being able to fight a good politcal game? I don't think that merits 35 years of experience.  Obviously, I am an Obama supporter.


by shoeshine boy on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:48:27 AM EST

Re: Experience? (2.00 / 0)

Anyone can tout any experience they want to highlight.  It is up to the voters whether they are buying or not.  

I obviously disagree with the race and gender baiting comment, but appreciate the civil tone of your comment.  


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:10:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

The issue of "experience" is a red herring.

Experienced at what? What will Hillary use this experience to attain as president? That is the question which troubles most.

Democrats are sick of the DLC, right wing Republican Lite approach to running this country, with its obescience to corportism and Neocon foreign policy. Experience that appeals mostly to Reagan Democrats is not one many real Democrats want to latch onto.

Experienced or not, what is needed is a Democrat who will continue our liberal-socialist agenda. That is not Hillary, nor was it Bill in the 1990s. Hillary now has an opportunity to propose a notforprofit universal health care system, but instead she proposed a corporate run system, but doesn't say how she is going to pay for it, especially the 20% that comes off the top for CEO salaries, compmany profits, and stock dividends.

Not Clintonism again, please.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 08:00:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

Experienced at what? is still the message.

Here is an interesting piece from Huntington's Post:

A campaign flier created by a precinct captain for Sen. Barack Obama urges Nevada Republicans and independents to switch party affiliations "for a day" and caucus in the Democratic primary in order to defeat Sen. Hillary Clinton.

The flier, which was distributed in the Reno area, calls on voters to support Obama "if you think a Democrat will win in November and you don't want Hillary [sic]." It criticized Clinton for having "voted for the war when it was popular," and for taking "money from the special interest groups." Her nomination, the piece concluded, "will continue to polarize the country.

I can't imagine any aware Republicans, instead, voting against Hillary. Hillary is the Democratic Republican candidate, and Clintonism is about as close to Republicanism as the Republicans will get in November.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 08:49:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (2.00 / 0)

If that is the case, why aren't the Repugs becoming a Clintoncrat for a day and helping her gain the nomination? Your arguement doesn't make sense and is quite silly. Seems to me they would be trying their darnest to get her the nomination, not helping her get defeated.


by lonnette33 on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

Because they want a Republican to retain the Whitehouse, and that would be Hillary.

Make sense now?


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

Sorry. Retract above.

However,


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

Sorry. Retract above.

However, if Republicans were to vote in accordance with their agenda, Hillary not Obama would be closer to their liking.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

Your argument is premised on the assumption that you understand the Republican agenda, but virtually no Republicans do.

I work on Wall Street and I do not know even a single Republican who is enthused about a Hillary presidency.  Some of them are accepting of the concept, just as some are accepting of Obama.  But I cannot find one single Republican who believes that Hillary's presidency would represent a step forward for the Republican agenda.

Don't these sort of facts cause you to engage in reflection and self-doubt, even a little bit?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:40:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (2.00 / 0)

"A campaign flier created by a precinct captain for Sen. Barack Obama urges Nevada Republicans and independents to switch party affiliations "for a day" and caucus in the Democratic primary in order to defeat Sen. Hillary Clinton."

You actually think that this action is a strike against Hillary and a reason to vote for Obama?  I think it is the other way around, actually.  It shows to me that this precinct captain is not at all confident that Obama can win on his own, with Democrats and Democratic-leaning Independents (and I believe he is absolutely correct with that assessment,) so he is trying to get Republicans to "become Democrats for a day" to influence our nomination process.    A good reason for US (as Democrats and Progressives) to dismiss Obama as a candidate is his weakness amongst Democrats, his failure to get enough Democrats (the base) to be excited about him.     So, I find the conclusion of your post amusing, as it is actually Obama who is banking on and coaxing Republicans to forge a winning coalition, because without them, with just Democrats and Democratic-leaning Independents, he loses.  

This action by one of his precinct captains is a strike against Obama, because of the correct Obama-problem it addresses and even more of a reason to cast a vote for Hillary as a Progressive.


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:36:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

If you interpret a DCL moderate candidate as a progressive, you have defined progressive as Republican Lite, just how Clintonism is also defined. The K Street mob will just change T-shirts and march back to the Congress talking progressive talk: the medical industries, the military-industrial complex, etc.

Will Big Government (liberal-socialism) be over again, and will Hillary find some other scapegoat to appease the Republican racists (as opposed to "changing welfare as we know it" which is over)?


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:21:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

Well, the voting record is pretty clear, and there is pretty much universal agreement that Hillary is indeed a progressive (look at the ranking sites that keep track of such things.)   Perhaps it is not all of those independent groups and unbiased ranking sites that have it all wrong, but you?  


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:07:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

Corporate run medical care is progressive? Is Hillary critical of Canada's medical system or perhaps France's? Progressive medical care is the not-for-profit medical system as proposed by Kucinish, modeled after Medicare or Medicaid, where administrative costs are 3% rather than 20% by the for-profits devoted to CEO salaries, company profits, and dividends.

This only one program. Let's talk about foreign policy where Hillary is the Democrat's Neocon.

Did anyone respond yet just how Bill and Hillary Clinton contributed to the civil rights movement?


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

"Corporate" run medical care is not what Hillary is proposing, as you most likely know all too well.  For that matter, you are holding up Kucinich's plan, where does that leave Obama (the guy you support) who would leave 15 Million people uninsured?  

Clinton's plan is modelled more like the universal health care plan Switzerland features, by all accounts a very successful program and far removed from "corporate medical care."      


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

So it is government run. Is that correct? Well, make up your mind. Private for profit or government not for profit. Is there a choice, or is she proposing that the Swiss government come in and administrate it for us?

It is either socialized medicine, like they have in England, France, Sweden, or all of the other EU countries, and the English speaking countries as well. In some, an alternative medical care system exists for the wealthy, which Canada may have recently turned to, but the system is basically either government run or it isn't, i.e., for profit.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

She voted to authoruze the use of military force in Iraq. Didn't even read the NIE.

tHIS IS A DIRELECTION OF DUTY BY A us SENATOR.

She is no progressive.


by BDM on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

Whatever, BDM.  Most people would look at an entirety of a voting record to make ideological assessments.  You seem not interested in reasonable assessment.  

BTW, Rasmussen has it at 7% now.  Only 3% more to go until Friday to make it to double-digits, as predicted.  :-)


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (2.00 / 0)

The fallacy of your argument here is that it is Clinton who scores with Democrats.  Obama's appeal grows in comparison, the further to the right you go.  He has more appeal with Independents (a group more centrist/moderate) and some Republicans, but Democrats generally have not embraced Obama, a weakness Obama shows with the BASE.   It is he who appears poised to weaken the progressive agenda by being the post-partisan president, the guy who Republicans can embrace as "less big-government than Hillary."  


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:57:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (2.00 / 1)

I am beginning to see more and more Obama supporters asking this, which I take as a good thing.  Below are three of the my own diaries that focused on different aspects of her experience:

Hillary a Crucial Advisor, Even During Lewinsky Scandal

Hillary has over 35 years of making change happen? You decide.

Hillary and MLK: The Untold Story


by Mike Pridmore on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 06:32:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

There is little doubt that when Bill Clinton ran on the racist appeasing proposal to "Change Welfare As we Know It," MLK turned over in his grave. MLK understood that racism was yoked to poverty and the latter had to be conquered just as racism had been, at least legally.

But we keep hearing how Bill and Hillary Clinton did wonders during the civil rights era, but nobody can find out what that was. After pandering to Republican racist sentiments lasting from the Reagan era, what did Bill Clinton really do for civil rights? Play jazz sax? Play golf with a few highly visible Black politicians? Hire more Blacks into his administration?

Well, that nice Bill. In the meantime, while you went "states' rights" on Welfare Reform, and went along with Gingrich on the "personal responsibility" rhetoric in the reform legislation intent on telling us that Blacks are not personally responsible...and who did not associate Welfare with Black poverty at the time...you let many uneducated, unskilled poor mothers and their children into the abyss. Yes, some advanced themselves and did better, but those were the only ones we heard about. If getting welfare mothers (kicked) off welfare is good, then it was a good program; if getting welfare children into foster care is good, then it sucked.

PS: And didn't everyone know that motherhood is not a legitimate job. It is what lazy women do.


Click on Peace, Propaganda, & The Promised Land and learn the truth about the I/P conflict.
by shergald on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:41:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience? (none / 0)

You didn't read any of that in my post did you?  If you had actually read it you would what a dumb@$$ you look like with those ignorant comments.


by Mike Pridmore on Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 11:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No one is saying that Obama can't tout (2.00 / 0)

his experience as a state legislator. Both HRC and Obama have unique experiences. HRC is promoting the idea that her experience counts more. Surprise, surprise, that's what candidates do when they run for office.

HRC touts the idea that she has more EXECUTIVE BRANCH experience b/c of the various things she did as First Lady. Since the President is in charge of the EXECUTIVE BRANCH, not the LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, then her EXECUTIVE BRANCH experience while First Lady is a plus. The EXECUTIVE BRANCH of the goverment is HUGE and contains MANY bureaucracies. The advantage that HRC has is that while First Lady, she dealt with all of those bureaucracies and has a feel for how to properly administer them. Considering how Bush has FEMA-IZED EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT AGENCY, one argument in favor of HRC is that she would know what it takes to run the HUGE bureaucracy from her experiences in the White House as First Lady, that she could start the Executive Branch's rehabilitation process much faster than her competitors.

Yes, Barack has more legislative experience than HRC, but it is just legislative experience. Legislators require a totally different skill set than executives. JFK, the last member of the legislative branch to become president directly from the Senate, had a rough time his first couple of years or so trying to take on his executive role. The question that American voters will have to decide is does the US have the time (probably years) for someone to figure out how to become an executive given the VAST problems that we face now, ie the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the economic recession and the list goes on and on.

I for one don't think there's that amount of time, which is one of the reasons why I'm supporting HRC.....    


by ademption on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 06:39:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

even though Obama did not respond on the issue of race

The Obama camp clearly stated the race issue, as Charlie Rangel made clear today.


by kristoph on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:57:19 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

Ben Smith has a pretty obvious agenda. There isn't any doubt which candidate he supports in this race, even though he doesn't have the integrity to post a disclaimer to that effect. But I had to laugh when his rollicking "roiling racism" rant ended up on Drudge, bookended by a picture of Wesley Snipes and his tax evasion problems, and an O.J. Simpson flash of his latest legal indiscretion. To make the irony complete, Simpson was bound for a Las Vegas jail and trial, at the same time as the candidates were due in town. Not sure if that was intentional on Drudge's part, but it fits his twisted sense of humour. But it's always nice to see Smith get "owned".

Hard to say which candidate profits (or suffers the least) by highlighting the racial issue. Prevailing wisdom suggests that Obama is likely to benefit in South Carolina, and suffer the consequent backlash in other states, particularly where there are significant concentrations of other minorities. Any gains among the African American community for Obama are likely to be offset by losses in Hispanic and Asian communities.

Having RCP (via Rasmussen) trumpet the racial discrepancies that show up in polls and that trend may be accelerated by the rhetoric. Certainly with what has happened in the past few days, pollsters will be all over breakdowns of support by race of the respective candidates in S.C. Assuming that Obama gets a huge portion of the black vote in that state, there will be a consequent backlash to follow. My own assesment is that it would be a huge net loss for Obama.


by robert ethan on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:46:34 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (2.00 / 1)

Obama's politics has become unbearable to me . I fear a politician that can pull a wool over so many people's eyes.

The whole race thing is the high point for me , he let this thing go on for 3 days before he comes out and then he starts acting like he is some kind of above the fray politicians.

His campaign has been pushing it behind the scenes , John Lewis was really pissed off at the guy on PBS .

Andrea Mitchell as horrible a journalist as she is with her hack pack crew on Obama's channel said she had received a few e- mails from the obama campaign pushing the race thing.

Its just unfortunate that the media won't look critically when it comes to Obama.

Hillary Clinton had just won an historic victory in NH and the media still cannot figure out that it was in Obama's best interest to blunt that momentum by bringing up this race issue looking towards South Carolina.

That was Obama's southern strategy and he is barely been held accountable for it when it is so blatantly obvious.

He has been playing this classic rovian game ,I actually gave him a pass for it , I just saw it as him playing hardball , but this guy has lied on national television one too many times for me.

Did you watch the NBC Nightly News garbage , you know NBC was never a good tv channel , now they might as well just pack it up and close shop. Brian Williams, Tim Russert , Chris Mattews and Olberman have just turned the network into a joke . Obama just sat there , right in front of the tv cameras and lied to the reporter , saying Clinton wanted to get him off his message and that his campaign had nothing to do it and I thought to myself , wasn't it andrea mitchell that said earlier in the day that she had received e-mails from his camp and no follow up.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:10:15 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (2.00 / 1)

Nope, did not see the NBC thing.  My parents have flown in to ignore my wife, our 10-yr. old and myself and fawn over the 2 1/2 yr. old.   :-)  So, most of the evening was spent with family.  Is there a Youtube of the interview?  

I guess race issues had to come up prominently eventually.  I think it really started with the comment that Obama lost because many NH voters are racists (tell pollsters one thing, but in the booth let their racist tendencies take over,) which I regarded as a lot of unfounded junk, a cheap excuse, when many other reasons made a lot more sense.   I believe the MLK-LBJ thing was totally misquoted and created an unwarranted outrage that seeks an equal as for ridiculousness and dishonest handling, (rivalled probably by the fake outrage expressed by right-wingers about Al Gore supposedly claiming that he "invented the Internet.")  Hopefully, this stuff is now over and done with and we can now move onto other issues, although, honestly, with Clinton beating Obama strongly on most issues (health care, economy, education, Iraq, etc.) I am not that optimistic that this is over.  It may be in Obama's interest to keep it going instead of discussing whether his health care proposal is even universal, despite the obvious potential for negative repercussions.  


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:43:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

Its the Nightly News stuff , it should be on their web site , basically they did a report on the race thing , painting Clinton as being on the defensive as usual and then having a seat down with Obama who then goes on and said the clinton campaign was trying to get him off message because he was winning , who just won the NH primary coming from a 10 - 15 % point deficit.

In light of that , who would be attempting to get someone else off message ?


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:49:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (2.00 / 0)

He really said because he was winning?  After just having lost NH in spectacular fashion?  Well, "humble" is certainly not a distinct Obama personality trait, that's for sure.  


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:54:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

Don't get to emotional over the fight for the nomination.

The nominee will have to bring all factions together or we can say hello to President McCain.


by BDM on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lori (1.00 / 3)

You need meds


Listening comes first
by Moonwood on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:33:06 AM EST

Prediction: If Hillary wins (1.00 / 1)

she'll be despised by all and voted out of office after one term. But at least I'll be able to say "I didn't vote for her."


by nerdoff on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:48:46 AM EST

Nerdoff will vote McCain (2.00 / 0)

What a great democrat this guy is.


by ottovbvs on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:36:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prediction: If Hillary wins (2.00 / 0)

This post makes absolutely no sense.  If she is despised by all, she would not even win the WH or even be close to being nominated by Democrats.  How could she then be "voted out of office after one term?"


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:51:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She'll earn our disdain (none / 0)

during her first--and only--term.


by nerdoff on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:50:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (2.00 / 0)

The good old days were when Bill Clinton was President and he has said many times that Hillary was his no.1 advisor... Watching Hillary today with her knowledge of everything that is going on and her desire to be a part of it, you can't possibly say that she was just sitting behind him and nodding, in fact you realize that she was very much a part of everything he did....  When they left the Whitehouse, the people were not voting for change as they are today....


by my nickle on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 08:35:15 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

Chelsea is pretty cool.  She's already starting to seem a little inevitable. ;)


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 09:11:31 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

Good point.  :-)


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:48:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary's awful experience (none / 0)

NAFTA.  Taking the $100,000 bribe in the cattle futures.  Numerous Chinese fundraising scandals.  Triangulation.  The corporatizing of health care, despite her "failure" at it.  The WTO.

Do people on this blog have no memories?  Just wait, the Swiftboaters will.  They're just holding their fire till she's in range, after the nomination.

For more info, check the excellent Progressive Review:  http://prorev.com/legacy.htm


by Garret on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:05:16 AM EST

All this was Republican bs. (none / 0)

And bozos like Garret suck it up because it suits his Naderite view of the world. In fact it sounds like he is a Republican. It is odd how the great Clinton haters are on the extreme right and extreme left. Most odd.  


by ottovbvs on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:38:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's awful experience (2.00 / 0)

Where to begin?  

Hillary had nothing to do with NAFTA, and she has stated that it needs to be changed.

"Taking the $100,000 bribe in the cattle futures" = a despicable right-wing smear that you should be ashamed of.

What does "triangulation" mean?  Can you point to examples of Hillary Clinton doing so?  Her Senate record is decidedly progressive, after all.  If you are going to charge her with "triangulation," Obama seems to be the one who "triangulates" with his bi-partisan, post-partisan rhetoric, his attempts at getting Republicans to vote for him by being as nebulous about many of his proposals as possible.

Hillary's health care proposal has been lauded by Ezra Klein.  That should be enough to make you realize that it is a very good proposal.

WTO?   What the.... ?


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:46:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's awful experience (none / 0)

Except her vote to authorize the use of military force in Iraq. (AUMF)


by BDM on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (2.00 / 2)

I sent Hillary $50 after her win in New Hampshire (bring my totals to her at just over $150). I'll be supporting her in the caucuses here in Minnesota on Super Tuesday. Thanks for this terrific diary.


by Christopher Lib on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:52:11 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

But don't you see??  Hillary's misunderstanding of movement politics is exactly what's wrong with her.  

She only understands the process.  Couldn't she lead the process just as well in the senate?  

We need a tidal wave of change, not someone who dismisses the wave's importance.


by IowaCubs on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 11:34:53 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (2.00 / 0)

Many are simply not buying into the "movement" or that Obama actually represents "movement politics."  You have to learn to live with it, as we are not a monolithic society, and certainly not a monolithic party.  To many of us Obama represents an approach that is out of date.  Post-partisanship is for many of us code for triangulation, and we have had enough of that.  We have no appetite to regard THIS crop of GOPers in Congress as our equal.  We have a historic opportunity to build up the Democratic party into a long-lasting majority position, and with post-partisanship many believe we would squander that opportunity.   Just the way it is.  In the end, the candidate with the least misgivings amongst his base (us) will win the nomination.   I for one am casting my vote for Hillary in big part because of her progressive bona-fides, but also because she is not going to be as bi-partisan as Obama promises to be, seeking the middle on every issue, thereby watering down many proposals dear to us as progressives.  If any of these candidates is going to be prone to triangulating, it would be Obama, in my opinion.


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 11:57:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (2.00 / 0)

Excellent diary georgep.


by lonnette33 on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 11:40:21 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

Oh and regarding the "racial crap..."  

It was Hillary's endless codewords that prompted this whole debate.  It just took something overt such as her outlandish diss of MLK to spark the debate.  Check this article by Laura Washington in today's Chicago Sun Times...


At a New Hampshire coffee shop, a woman asked if she was OK. Clinton teared up, her voice quavered: "I have so many opportunities from this country, I just don't want to see us fall backward," she replied. "This is very personal for me -- it's not just political, it's not just public."

Listen to the words. "I just don't want to see us fall backward." Backward to what?

To that black man. That black man who beat Hillary. That black man who made the white woman cry.

White New Hampshire voters came to her rescue. Poor Hillary. Don't worry -- we will protect you. We will save you.

(emphasis mine)

Yeah... you go girl.

(Again, emphasis mine.)


by IowaCubs on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 11:44:40 AM EST

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (2.00 / 0)

"outlandish diss of MLK"

You quite obviously have not researched this issue fully.  Please do so.  When you do, you will no doubt come back here and make amends for the false contention that Hillary dissed MLK in any way.  In fact, the narrative you have fallen prey to is exactly the problem here, and it is shameful.


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 11:47:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

SHE CERTAINLY IS NO JFK. If this was 1960 most
of her supporter's on this site would have supported LBJ over Kennedy.
by BDM on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:26:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

What you've demonstrated here is that literally anything can be about race if you're determined to hear it that way.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 11:55:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

Good Lord...that is the most shameful interpretation of Senator Clinton's emotional moment I have ever read. I feel dirty even reading it.
by americanincanada on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 12:11:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

My problem is not her comments in regard to MLK, but rather her complete misunderstanding of citizen guided processes.  The solution lies in Washington, she says.  

Nah, real political change occurs outside of DC, not inside.  I think her MLK v. LBJ statement tells more about who she would be as president than anything racist.  

This is why she can't be president... her fundamental misunderstanding of people and people driven movements.


by IowaCubs on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:19:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Clinton moving onto NV, SC, FL, Feb. 5 (none / 0)

It's amazing, the Republicans are still putting their hands over their heart every time Ronald Reagaan is mentioned but we have the best past President since FDR .... We now have a chance to have either the best or 2nd best President since FDR and it would be highly stupid not to put Hillary into that office and keep our legacy going......


by my nickle on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:07:44 PM EST

This has become a Hillary blog (none / 0)

Georgerep, thus far I've figured you're a sincere guy taken in by the Clintons, doing a great job of promoting someone you (misguidedly) believe in.  (Ottovbvs's reply I won't digify with an answer)

No more.

Your reply to my post "Hillary's awful experience', above, is beyond ignorant.  Check your facts.  Just because you like someone does not mean they or you are correct, or that they are innocent.  

It may take courage to see the flaws in your saint, but that's what we all have to do.  Politicians lie and cheat.  The Clintons are among the best at this.  They represent their funders very well...arms manufacturers, Wall St, the insurance industry.  

Is this so hard to see?


by Garret on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:03:05 PM EST

Re: This has become a Hillary blog (none / 0)

Given your other post in this diary (the utterly ridiculous contention "taking the $100,000 bribe in the cattle futures" stands out,) I am not really apt to care one way or another if you think that I am "just" misguided, or something more "severe."   Knock yourself out.  For cripes sakes, if you want your voice to carry weight here, blog regularly, not once a month or so.  Become part of the process and discussion, not just a quick fly-byer.  Where is the fun in that for us regulars?  


by georgep on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:02:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has become a Hillary blog (none / 0)

i wouldnt give him the time of day.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has become a Hillary blog (none / 0)

Hi again Georgerep-

I'm sure you're sincere, and I see no value in arguing, but history is history.  Here's what comes up when one Googles "Clinton cattle futures"  
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=na vclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GFRD,GFRD:2 006-52,GFRD:en&q=clinton+cattle+futu res

Lots of smoke, lots of money.  Fire?

It's true that I don't have the time to comment every day.  I wish I did.  But I do read way too much and I do remember back awhile.

Best,
Garret


by Garret on Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 06:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has become a Hillary blog (none / 0)

You used the term "BRIBES for cattles futures."  Only the right wing had framed it that way, and there is no evidence whatsoever of any wrongdoing at all, let alone BRIBERY.   I don't know what to say about this stuff, other than that it makes you appear, well, like someone from that wing.  I have not researched into that (i.e. looked at the totality of your comments) to get an accurate read alongst those lines, am just relaying my impression here, based on the framing on this issue.  


by georgep on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 01:37:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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